09/28/2026 - Would You Plant the Bomb?

[LBD]

Yummy - it’s debatable whether we should be strict pacifists or not when it comes to personal safety. Where it comes to organized violence to overthrow the government and bring about the kingdom - yeah, that’s not the plan and those who advocate that are missing the point.
As for total non-violence…I suppose we need to ask Jesus why he whipped folks from the temple. That situation didn’t require that…did it?
If someone comes to harm my family or even my non-family, and I have the opportunity and means to stop it, it is my responsibility to do so. Where do you stop in this path of non-resistance? Do you go to the doctor? If so, does that mean you lack faith in God to heal? Do you put money in the bank? Does that mean you lack faith in God to provide? Do you wear a seatbelt? ….where do we stop?
I will not seek violence. I will avoid it at much cost…but not all cost. Certainly not at the cost of those God has given me the responsibility of care.

[PaulB]

Yummy - it’s debatable whether we should be strict pacifists or not when it comes to personal safety.

I have a friend who is an absolute pacifist. He says if someone was hurting his wife he would probably fight them, even though he thinks that would be wrong. He makes a very solid biblical case for what he believes. I am not sold, but he makes a far better case than the "God and Guns" crowd does.

Where do you stop in this path of non-resistance? Do you go to the doctor? If so, does that mean you lack faith in God to heal?

Really? If you think those things are in any way the same you have zero understanding of what pacifists think.

[LBD]

Where do you stop in this path of non-resistance? Do you go to the doctor? If so, does that mean you lack faith in God to heal?

Really? If you think those things are in any way the same you have zero understanding of what pacifists think.

I would argue that. I know folks who are both pacifists and "naturalists". I think they do indeed go hand in hand often. I would probably say most naturalists are pacifist, but now all pacifists are naturalists. The true pacifists I know are faith driven though. They simply put their faith in God to handle whatever situation may arrise and they will accept it as "God's will." Much the same as they might address medical issues. "If God wants you healed, He'll heal you." I have serious problems with that last part.... Maybe not the same kind of pacifists like you have in your part of the world?

I spent a while wrangling with this when I first converted. After many decades of study and hearing all sides of the debate, I have come down on non-violence as long as it depends on me to choose, but violence is not out of consideration when it is in defense of others primarily, and to some extent self-defense. If I make a choice to sacrifice myself, that's my choice. But I don't get to make that choice for someone else by allowing them to be sacrificed when I can do something about it. The argument I have wrangled with is if I kill someone, I may have ended their ability to find the Lord and be saved. But I know I am so if I sacrifice myself - "to die is gain", right? But the same can be said if I allow someone to kill someone else - they may be robbing that someone from salvation. If I don't stop that act, am I not also complicit in both the murder and the salvation theft? Lots of ways to look at it. But when studying the scripture, it seems God has a different view of value of life than many humans.

If I had to take a life for what I consider a valid reason, it would be life-changing and a difficult time afterward. I certainly don't seek it in any way.

[PaulB]

Where do you stop in this path of non-resistance? Do you go to the doctor? If so, does that mean you lack faith in God to heal?

Really? If you think those things are in any way the same you have zero understanding of what pacifists think.

I would argue that. I know folks who are both pacifists and "naturalists". I think they do indeed go hand in hand often.

I don't have enough data points to say if you are correct or not. But I have enough to say some pacifists are all about medicine. The one I'm thinking of spearheaded getting AEDs for the church.

I would probably say most naturalists are pacifist, but now all pacifists are naturalists.

There I have enough data points to disagree strongly. I know some very well armed folks who gladly shoot anyone who tried to vaccinate them!

The true pacifists I know are faith driven though. They simply put their faith in God to handle whatever situation may arrise and they will accept it as "God's will."

I agree.

Much the same as they might address medical issues. "If God wants you healed, He'll heal you." I have serious problems with that last part....

The difference is you don't have to twist the Bible to see pacifism, and you have to twist and ignore some parts to be opposed to medicine. I mean, Paul tells Timothy to drink wine for his stomach, and Luke was a doctor.

[LBD]

I would probably say most naturalists are pacifist, but now all pacifists are naturalists.

There I have enough data points to disagree strongly. I know some very well armed folks who gladly shoot anyone who tried to vaccinate them!

Different sub-group altogether... Those are (that take that staunch a position) conspiracist. Conspiracist don't typically act on data or research, but act on emotions. Though all three can co-exist in one person to various levels.

An interesting discussion I had just yesterday comes to mind this morning on this subject. Paul instructed Timothy (2Tim 3) that there were some people he was to basically leave alone, indicating they would not receive the gospel based on their own decisions to be contrary to it. It would seem they were included in those who God had "given over to their own lusts." IF they were counted as "unsavable" at this point, and the preacher was told to avoid them rather than try to convince them, how much value does God put on their lives?? Does He still desire they repent and be saved? I certainly think so. But if they were to die beforehand, they made their choice.
If someone assaults my home and loses their life in the act...they made their choice.