How do you define lust?

What is lust? What isn't? How can I guard myself...
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mywifesman
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Re: How do you define lust?

Post by mywifesman »

Paradox wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 8:50 pm
Mike smith wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 7:39 pm mymifesman,
Anger seldom wins and arguments are seldom won. Reasoned discussion MIGHT get somewhere.
NIcely put. Very nice.
Note that the context of this thread is all about lust as defined by Scripture - and so, the issue over whether that's even important or just a matter of personal opinion and preference is very relevant. I'm sorry if you think my response is anger-driven or a personal attack - if so, you have greatly misunderstood me. But I do care very greatly about truth related to God and His word. And thus, I merely find it very troubling whenever people that identify as Christians don't view God's word as reliable, understandable, or relevant today (per modern culture, etc), as believers struggle to apply it to our lives. Which is why, if you look back through my response, it's an appeal to logic and reason. As HOW we view God - His power, love, and characteristics has everything to do with whether we think He has and can protect His words to man, while conveying them in a way we can understand and apply them. And that doesn't mean there aren't mysteries in it. But God's moral directives were given out of His great love for us. Either what God's apostle wrote in 2 Timothy 3: 16-17 is true or not: "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." And you can read the previous verses in that chapter for context. These are not MY contentions, but what God's word asserts - and one can accept or reject them - as it's either reliable truth or not. But "IF" God is as Scripture reveals Him to be, the idea that He left us with a Bible full of myths, distortions, outright lies, perhaps all indecipherably blended with SOME remnants of His original truth and messages - well, that's an illogical, highly problematic, even dangerous, view.
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Re: How do you define lust?

Post by Paradox »

mywifesman wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:49 am
Paradox wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 8:50 pm
Mike smith wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 7:39 pm mymifesman,
Anger seldom wins and arguments are seldom won. Reasoned discussion MIGHT get somewhere.
NIcely put. Very nice.
Note that the context of this thread is all about lust as defined by Scripture
But you seem to deny the existence of the God of the Bible, who Christians view as an intelligent, kind, loving God, looking to many anti-theistic "scholars." You are taking the views of the post-WW-2, which concluded that God is dead or a divine bully.
mywifesman
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Re: How do you define lust?

Post by mywifesman »

Paradox wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:33 pm
mywifesman wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:49 am
Paradox wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 8:50 pm
Mike smith wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 7:39 pm mymifesman,
Anger seldom wins and arguments are seldom won. Reasoned discussion MIGHT get somewhere.
NIcely put. Very nice.
Note that the context of this thread is all about lust as defined by Scripture
But you seem to deny the existence of the God of the Bible, who Christians view as an intelligent, kind, loving God, looking to many anti-theistic "scholars." You are taking the views of the post-WW-2, which concluded that God is dead or a divine bully.
Where the heck did you get that analysis from - certainly not from what I wrote! God is loving, kind, and intelligent beyond all we can even imagine. A bully???!!! He's exactly the opposite, as He is patient, merciful, and forgiving beyond any human definition of it! But God is also JUST - and He expects us to do our best to obey Him. And He is Who and WHAT He is (which NEVER changes!). We don't get to define HIM, as He's redundantly revealed Himself through His many prophets and apostles across His Word. And He has LOVINGLY put forth many moral teachings to guide us along our journey. He knows we're gonna mess up, but is quick to forgive us. But, when I see people assert that His communications to us either aren't reliable, have been distorted, blended with myths and lies, or aren't understandable - or that they were all written mostly for an ancient culture and simply antiquated, not meant for us today to take seriously (particularly, the New Testament!) - well, that's simply not what the Bible teaches. And scholarship has redundantly confirmed all of these things. So, you can believe or cherrypick whatever you might want to believe God has communicated to us - or not. Yes, many of the Bible's OT laws were mostly for ancient Israel and not for Christians (we are living post-Law / Resurrection / New Covenant). But much of the New Testament teachings both echo and prolifically quote the Old Testament, and Jesus confirmed it (in its ENTIRETY) as being God's inspired Scriptures. Look, I'm no legalist - I'm no better than anyone! Really, I'm just another flawed human being. But I am logical enough to know that God, as He has revealed Himself, HAS communicated to us very clearly and intentionally His expectations as to how we are to morally conduct ourselves - and people can be dismissive and not believe this if they choose to - I'm not anyone's judge - only God is.

Anyway, I realize this isn't really the thread for this topic - but as it came up, I thought it was important.

BTW, as for people who DO think the Bible, as written, reveals a God who is a "divine bully" (your words), I would highly suggest you get the eye-opening book, by Bible scholar Dr. Paul Copan, "Is God a Moral Monster?" It examines about every false accusation and misconception I've ever seen asserted about God and the Bible.
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Re: How do you define lust?

Post by Bethany93 »

I believe lust, in the biblical sense, is a desire to commit unlawful sexual acts with someone.

Where it gets sticky is the Law doesnt mention sexual activity outside of intercourse. Wont get into it deep here, but you can imagine where things can get borderline and justified, etc.. Its lust if i want my friend to have intercourse with me. Is it lust to want him to rub my back? Hard to say. But then you cross from lust to sensuality, which is much more subjective. Giving a friend a lap dance i think wed all agree is sensual, though not violating the Law.

I dont think its lust to desire something acceptable. As a common example, before we were married, i wanted to have sex with my husband really bad once we were married. I see that as a lawful sexual desire. As a less common example, since the bible never condemns polygamy in any way, we play with the idea of my husband marrying other (made up) women. A desire to marry and subsequently have sex with another wife is not unlawful, so i dont think its "lust."

Anyway, i feel like a whole book could be written here, but theres 2 cents
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Re: How do you define lust?

Post by RuggedAmerican »

As a less common example, since the bible never condemns polygamy in any way, we play with the idea of my husband marrying other (made up) women. A desire to marry and subsequently have sex with another wife is not unlawful, so i dont think its "lust."
Um no. It's precisely because Jesus says desiring another woman is adultery that polygamy isn't an option.
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Re: How do you define lust?

Post by Katydid »

Peter wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:31 am Here are my thoughts:

What lust is not: The initial hormonal and neurochemical pleasure shot to the brain is not lust, although that can be trained.  The noticing of another person is not an issue.

What lust is: Lust is a purposeful attempt to get sexual stimulation and gratification or coveting to do so, with someone who is not your spouse. It is going or attempting to go for "seconds," real or imagined. When sexual temptation is nurtured and fed, sin tends to grow. James says, “And when sin is allowed to grow, it gives birth to death” (James 1:15).
Yes, I'd say I agree with this definition. A simple way to put it is, "seeing isn't sinful, but looking is."

I think a gray area would be a not-fully-recognizing lingering....say you're doom scrolling and a smutty image appears and instead of immediately scrolling away, you linger on it, but you're not fully consciously choosing to or really thinking about it, but when you snap out of it and realize, you scroll on/look away. However, you can still form your conscious and grow in virtue to teach yourself to not linger at all in the future.

In Catholicism, sins are either venial or mortal. Deliberately seeking out pornography or coming across pornography and choosing to indulge would be a mortal sin. But the gray-area I described would probably be a venial sin.
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Re: How do you define lust?

Post by Paradox »

I think it is allowing myself to think on something that raises my senses, but is forbidden by God.
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Re: How do you define lust?

Post by Lookin2Him »

Katydid wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 1:28 pm
Yes, I'd say I agree with this definition. A simple way to put it is, "seeing isn't sinful, but looking is."

I think a gray area would be a not-fully-recognizing lingering....

I like this train of thought. I notice good looking women, but if I allow myself to dwell on their specific attributes, then it becomes an issue. For example: say you see a nice looking person (either gender can do this) in the store and you intentionally route your path in order to see them multiple times. Or stay in the same route hoping to see them bend over or inadvertently flash some garment or skin. THAT is a lustful activity IMO.
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Re: How do you define lust?

Post by Katydid »

Lookin2Him wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 5:52 am
Katydid wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 1:28 pm
Yes, I'd say I agree with this definition. A simple way to put it is, "seeing isn't sinful, but looking is."

I think a gray area would be a not-fully-recognizing lingering....

I like this train of thought. I notice good looking women, but if I allow myself to dwell on their specific attributes, then it becomes an issue. For example: say you see a nice looking person (either gender can do this) in the store and you intentionally route your path in order to see them multiple times. Or stay in the same route hoping to see them bend over or inadvertently flash some garment or skin. THAT is a lustful activity IMO.
I think we have to distinguish between finding someone artfully beautiful and getting sexually aroused by or interested in them. I've seen people who were well-dressed, or just naturally beautiful and have looked at them and even sought them out for another look, but in a way of admiration of their beauty/handsomeness and not at all in a sexual way, like seeing them for the beautiful work of art that they are and not as a sexual object. However, I do tend to avoid doing that, now, just to keep myself on a track of respect. Most people don't want to be ogled, and I try to remember that if I wouldn't like my spouse doing it, I shouldn't do it.

Some people can people-watch all day long and not lust. Others struggle with lust to the point where most people are a distraction. We need to be wise.
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Re: How do you define lust?

Post by fearlesslunk »

I used to believe that lust equals sexual thoughts. It’s what most of us were taught. I’m now a firm believer that lust ALWAYS involves action. So, being sexually attracted to your married next door neighbor isn’t wrong in and of itself. Jesus wasn’t condemning the thought or desire. He was condemning the action plan created with intent… “How can I win her into MY bed? Hmmm, I think her husband is going on a business trip at the end of the month…” That plan is the lust. Does that action plan begin with sexual desire? Sure. But the desire isn’t the sin. If we read Matthew 5 incorrectly, it creates a shame culture around people who have sexual desire or sexual arousal… sometimes even outside of their control.
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