Premarital Sex Ultimatum for Post-Marital Sex

What's supposed to happen on the wedding night? Will it hurt? What if I'm not a virgin?
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Ron
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Re: Premarital Sex Ultimatum for Post-Marital Sex

Post by Ron »

MrMarried wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 7:52 am Hmmm. I think you are assuming that a woman who doesn't masturbate would have little or no sex drive after marriage.
I think that is exactly the case. There is always exceptions, but I think most women that don't masturbate before marriage have a low interest in sex.
Last edited by Link+Zelda on Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed Quote code.
mwpastor
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Re: Premarital Sex Ultimatum for Post-Marital Sex

Post by mwpastor »

My initial response was to think that it was probably a little harsh and a little overly specific for my tastes, but overall not to bad. But as I thought about it a little more, I don't think this kind of framing really works at all.
My expectations would be if there were no periods, agreements to sexual fast from both parties, no crises or health issues to be inside my wife maybe 10 to 30 minutes a day or have some other sexual interaction every 24 hours or so.
this overly specific, with minimal exceptions expectation is an attempt to separate the physical act of sex from the relational intimacy that is necessary for a truly good sex life. I don't see any ultimatums about what the partner writing the contract is going to do to create the kind of environment where the other partner will want to have sex at least every 24 hours. It took me most of 20 years to figure out that treating sex this way was making our sex life worse. It felt like a duty and an obligation and not something mutual.

I'm becoming more and more aware that a good mutually satisfying sex life is built over time and not negotiated. It happens in the context of a whole marriage, and to just set up all of these expectations right off the bat, seems more likely to set up a system of scoreboard keeping or resentment, than what you are actually looking for.

Plenty of conversations about sex should happen though.
-high drive/low drive.
-what do we want our sex life to look like in ideal circumstances?
-spontaneous/responsive desire.
-sexual preferences to the extent that you are aware of them
-education- do both of you know and understand how arousal, orgasm and female anatomy work (including how long it usually takes, and the limits of IC for many females)
newwifenewlife
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Re: Premarital Sex Ultimatum for Post-Marital Sex

Post by newwifenewlife »

MrMarried wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 7:52 am
Ron wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:14 am
Hmmm. I think you are assuming that a woman who doesn't masturbate would have little or no sex drive after marriage.
I think that is exactly the case. There is always exceptions, but I think most women that don't masturbate before marriage have a low interest in sex.
Then my wife must be one of those cases. Personally, I don't believe the statement is true. There's too many variables to impact drive and responsive desire is also in the mix that is hard to measure before marriage. A women, like my wife, has very little desire (especially since menopause) but she certainly responds as well as chooses to initiate for the sake of both of us. I'm leaving shortly for several weeks and she's not going to masturbate on her own while I'm gone. She has no desire to and didn't before we married...BUT once the ceremony was done, we had sex 2-4x daily for the honeymoon plus and every day for the first 9 months until her schedule and daily activities changed. We chose to avoid sexual contact and activities other than kissing until we married and both of us place that along with our conversations before marriage a significant part of our mutually satisfying sex life.
mwpastor
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Re: Premarital Sex Ultimatum for Post-Marital Sex

Post by mwpastor »

MrMarried wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 8:03 am

The sex robot comment is a little funny to me. A few times over the years when I wanted to have sex and we had had sex not too long before (the day before or two days before), my wife would say, "I am not a robot." And I would ask what that means? Robots don't have sex. I'd imagine hard metal, steam coming out of the robots neck.

Since then, they've got rubber-looking robots that talk, that look about as accurate as wax status, and I hear they have silicone sex dolls, and some have moving parts. They can put the talking AI in the sex doll if they haven't already, so her comment makes more sense now to me than it did.

I missed this earlier, but it's a good illustration of why the the expectation of IC for 10-30 minutes every day doesn't really work. The robot comment is saying that the expectations are too mechanical. If you tell a robot what to do and how often to do it, it will do exactly what you want as often as you want. The relationship does not matter. It does what it's told no matter what else is happening around it. That's not how marriage works.
Pearl
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Re: Premarital Sex Ultimatum for Post-Marital Sex

Post by Pearl »

MrMarried wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 7:52 am
Ron wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:14 am Must have an interest in sex. I would not marry a woman that would admit she didn't masturbate.
Hmmm. I think you are assuming that a woman who doesn't masturbate would have little or no sex drive after marriage. I would be curious to find out if that is the case. It's possible that there are women who did not masturbate before marriage who are very open to saying 'yes' to sex afterward or who actively pursue their husbands for it. I haven't heard any stats on that either way, though.
Yes there is: me. I was a virgin in every way. I have had a lot to learn, but I'm not ashamed of that, nor do I have a diminished drive because of it. From what I can tell (without being in someone's shoes), my drive increases and decreases like other women. It is not static. I would say I actively pursue my husband -- just my presence here should attest to that🙂.
Tantalum
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Re: Premarital Sex Ultimatum for Post-Marital Sex

Post by Tantalum »

Pearl wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:49 pm
MrMarried wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 7:52 am
Ron wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:14 am Must have an interest in sex. I would not marry a woman that would admit she didn't masturbate.
Hmmm. I think you are assuming that a woman who doesn't masturbate would have little or no sex drive after marriage. I would be curious to find out if that is the case. It's possible that there are women who did not masturbate before marriage who are very open to saying 'yes' to sex afterward or who actively pursue their husbands for it. I haven't heard any stats on that either way, though.
Yes there is: me. I was a virgin in every way. I have had a lot to learn, but I'm not ashamed of that, nor do I have a diminished drive because of it. From what I can tell (without being in someone's shoes), my drive increases and decreases like other women. It is not static. I would say I actively pursue my husband -- just my presence here should attest to that🙂.
That’s really interesting. I presume you did you have some erotic feelings before you were married, you just didn’t explore them?
Personally I haven’t known a single woman who did not masturbate, at least occasionally. Perhaps not to orgasm but still.
DW says once you discover your clitoris you can’t undiscover it… :D
MrMarried
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Re: Premarital Sex Ultimatum for Post-Marital Sex

Post by MrMarried »

Ron wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 8:19 am
MrMarried wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 7:52 am
Hmmm. I think you are assuming that a woman who doesn't masturbate would have little or no sex drive after marriage.
I think that is exactly the case. There is always exceptions, but I think most women that don't masturbate before marriage have a low interest in sex.
Some women may have actively been taught against it.

How often a woman masturbates could have little to do with how much she wants intercourse after marriage. There is a lot more that goes into having intercourse.

But a woman who had never masturbated who marries a man she knows will expect intercourse day after day or night after night who goes into marriage with that sort of expectation may find it kind of normal, for her. I'd imagine any young healthy person could get used to it if he or she thought it was normal and had a sufficiently gentle, loving spouse.
Last edited by Link+Zelda on Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quote code.
MrMarried
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Re: Premarital Sex Ultimatum for Post-Marital Sex

Post by MrMarried »

mwpastor wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:39 am
MrMarried wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 8:03 am

The sex robot comment is a little funny to me. A few times over the years when I wanted to have sex and we had had sex not too long before (the day before or two days before), my wife would say, "I am not a robot." And I would ask what that means? Robots don't have sex. I'd imagine hard metal, steam coming out of the robots neck.

Since then, they've got rubber-looking robots that talk, that look about as accurate as wax status, and I hear they have silicone sex dolls, and some have moving parts. They can put the talking AI in the sex doll if they haven't already, so her comment makes more sense now to me than it did.

I missed this earlier, but it's a good illustration of why the the expectation of IC for 10-30 minutes every day doesn't really work. The robot comment is saying that the expectations are too mechanical. If you tell a robot what to do and how often to do it, it will do exactly what you want as often as you want. The relationship does not matter. It does what it's told no matter what else is happening around it. That's not how marriage works.
I recall mentioning a hope for daily intercourse after marriage to my now-wife. It wasn't presented as a demand or requirement, and she didn't agree to it, seemed not to be on board with the idea, though she thought about it on one occasion said it sounded like it could be nice. We were virgins at marriage. As newly weds did have sex every other day until she got pretty far along with the first pregnancy, with hand jobs on other days and during her period instead of intercourse, with exceptions for illness and travelling. But she hasn't always stayed on top of my sexual desires or even needs to that degree since.

Theoretically, this kind of conversation, tweaked a bit (honestly 'ultimatum' is probably too extreme) to feel out a partner's desire for sexual frequency for compatibility and partly to set expectations, seems to me a good idea. We humans have selective memories. A conversation that is really important to a husband can be forgotten by the wife and vice versa.

It's also a lot better for a dating couple to split up when there is no serious violation of trust and no sin involved in doing so early on over this issue than for a couple to divorce after marriage over the issue of sex. I know it happens. I had a cousin who kept getting divorced and remarried throughout her life. I heard her comment on her first husband coming home from work dirty, and wanting sex every day. I don't know all their problems and why she divorced him. Years later, I heard her years later talking about why she divorced her husband, third I think, because he wouldn't have sex with her.

And we aren't robots, to use the analogy, who have to get a divorce when the 'no sex' and 'too much sex' buttons get pushed. People make choices to do that.

The idea of daily sex being associated with robots is kind of funny. Imagine Rosie from the Jetsons with steam coming out of her neck saying 'Oh yeah baby' in a monotone voice. It's not very appealing, either. :)
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Re: Premarital Sex Ultimatum for Post-Marital Sex

Post by sayayo7565 »

MrMarried wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 5:41 am - Tell her that the reason I was choosing marriage over celibacy because I wanted to have regular sex.
I'm certain you're going to come out if this conversation single. I would not suggest this.
Last edited by SeekingChange on Fri Sep 29, 2023 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected who was being quoted
Lightbulb
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Re: Premarital Sex Ultimatum for Post-Marital Sex

Post by Lightbulb »

sayayo7565 wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2023 5:47 am
MrMarried wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 5:41 am - Tell her that the reason I was choosing marriage over celibacy because I wanted to have regular sex.
I'm certain you're going to come out if this conversation single. I would not suggest this.
First of all, I'm not sure how I missed this thread. Very interesting topic.

I'm not sure Tantalum's line is that unreasonable. I mean, I agree about not citing Bible verses as foreplay, but it seems like understanding the reason for being married as opposed to single is one of the foundations of a Biblical marriage. Paul was very clear who should be married and who shouldn't, and this phrase along with the rest of the support for Biblical marriage and sexuality should be front and center. Setting the expectation that I am a deeply committed Christian devoted to following The Way and making the advice of the Bible my primary guidance for all aspects of my life including marriage seems like a good idea.

Second, as some people indicate, getting married as a younger person without a sexual history might make it completely unreasonable to set particular expectations as to frequency, duration, types of activities, etc. You just don't know what to expect or what you are going to like, and of course you are in the honeymoon stage of your relationship (not the honeymoon trip that comes the week after you get married, the phase of the relationship where you are falling in love and growing in attachment and you get warm and fuzzy feelings in your stomach) - in other words, you are in a unique period of sexual attraction and other attraction that may or may not last for the long term.

My advice to someone contemplating marriage for the first time would be to explore each other's attitudes about sexuality. Is it something you look forward to? Do you think your desire is normal, low, or high? Is your spouse's satisfaction with your sex life something that is important to you? Finally, set aside your complete certainty about how your sexual desire will be perpetual, and pretend for the moment that one of you loses their sex drive completely. What should that spouse's obligation be to the other at that point? What should the spouse that still has a sex drive expect out of the other party?

My wife and I did have a conservation about expectations for sexuality before we decided to get married. I told her I thought I was a higher than normal sex drive and that many of my work friends had said I would be shocked at how little you actually have sex in marriage after the first couple of years. She gave me her complete and convincing assurance that that would never happen to us.

But of course, she had no idea that two months after we were married, she would have almost no sex drive. And we had no understanding of what expectations should be for a marriage with substantially different sex drives. And bridging that gap/dealing with the disappointment of lack of generosity in marriage has been the biggest challenge of my entire life.

So, in conclusion, if I became single due to the death of my wife, in my discussions about potential marriage to any interested woman, I wouldn't be shy about stating my expectations in great detail. Frequency, what activities, tastes, preferences, and for that matter, she would need to know that I've would expect to make up for lost time due to a history of disappointment. I am not someone who would have an ultimatum about specific activity - if she doesn't like oral, that's fine, and while there are certain other activities I'm not drawn to, I'd be willing to participate anything as long as it was Biblical. But there would be an ultimatum that we would have a robust and fulfilling sex life.
Last edited by SeekingChange on Fri Sep 29, 2023 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected who was being quoted
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