Masturbation as an Aid

[Deleted User 2151]

When I first masturbated I was just playing with myself and it stayed like that.
An interesting aspect of being a virgin and not having much to fantasize about is that when we married it was so much more fun and exciting than I had ever imagined it would be and it still is.

If that's how it worked for you, God blessed you. I got into porn before masturbation sadly.

[Will 103]

I know how pervasive the visual imagery we get from porn is. It is arousing and stimulating in ways that are almost beyond our comprehension. When I first discovered masturbation I became addicted to it and was playing with myself too often. If I had access to internet porn as a teen I would have become addicted to it.

[PaulB]

I got into porn before masturbation sadly.

Likewise. Seven and ten respectively.

[Deleted User 2151]

I got into porn before masturbation sadly.

Likewise. Seven and ten respectively.

Yikes, I was about twelve or thirteen before I really discovered what porn was. And to think it all started with something innocent as "How to get a girl to like me".

[David]

I recently read Philip Graham Ryken's commentary "love of loves in the Song of Songs".
It's a good book, but one comment in particular struck me as relevant to this topic:
sex within marriage is (or at least should be) essentially other person centred - the husband is trying to please his wife, and the wife her husband, in the process giving both of them pleasure and drawing them closer to both each other and God.
Masturbation, on the other hand, is essentially self centred - it's selfishly seeking to satisfy my own desires and actively excluding anyone else.

That's why Ryken argues that solo masturbation is inappropriate for the Christian. You don't have to agree, but it's a thought to consider.

[PaulB]

I recently read Philip Graham Ryken's commentary "love of loves in the Song of Songs".
It's a good book, but one comment in particular struck me as relevant to this topic:
sex within marriage is (or at least should be) essentially other person centred - the husband is trying to please his wife, and the wife her husband, in the process giving both of them pleasure and drawing them closer to both each other and God.

The problem with that is it's reading into the text. And honestly, I would argue there is plenty in the text that shows each of the lovers being very much about their own pleasure.

Good research has shown that being too focused on our partner and not being at all "selfish" about our own pleasure actually makes sex less good for our partner. The truth is we get off on seeing our spouse really wanting and enjoying us, and if they are so busy focusing on that us they don't do that, we both lose.

Masturbation, on the other hand, is essentially self centred - it's selfishly seeking to satisfy my own desires and actively excluding anyone else.

I've always wondered about people who put masturbation and sex with your spouse on the same level. The one is about physical release, while the other is far, far more.

But the bigger issue for me is that thinking is based in what I see as a fundamental theological error that has nothing to do with sex. I would call it Gnosticism, or a child of that heresy. Why is "satisfying my own desires" wrong? Does this mean I can't enjoy a good meal? Or I can only do that when I fellowship with others? What about enjoying a sunset? The Bible is clear we are to love and care for ourselves. How do we justify not doing that when our genitals are involved?

This kind of thinking is both wrong and destructive. There are married women out there who can't have orgasms because they feel selfish focusing on making that happen. There are people who don't get enough sleep or don't take time off because it feels selfish. Sure we can take it too far, but going the other directions just as wrong and just as destructive those who do it and those close to them.

Sorry for the rant, one of my pet peeves got kicked!

[SeekingChange]

Masturbation, on the other hand, is essentially self centred - it's selfishly seeking to satisfy my own desires and actively excluding anyone else.

That's why Ryken argues that solo masturbation is inappropriate for the Christian. You don't have to agree, but it's a thought to consider.

Sacrifice= giving up something you love for something you love even greater.

In our marriage, and I know we aren't the only one, the husband masturbating is a sacrifice, not selfishness. He gives up something he loves, sex (PIV) with me, for his greater love of and for me.

All of that was to say, "I don't agree." It may be true of some cases, but to make that a blanket truth for all, I believe is a false teaching.

[David]

Maybe it would help if you read Ryken's book, given that there's a context to his writing. It would also mean you're responding to what he actually wrote, rather than what you think he wrote.

Ryken certainly doesn't argue that it's wrong to satisfy my desires, rather he argues that there's a right way and a wrong way to do it.

IIRC his point was about the shared nature of sexual pleasure within marriage as contrasted with the exclusive nature of masturbation.

[PaulB]

I certainly have concerns about masturbation by married folks. I think it needs to be known, and the spouse should get the right of first refusal. And if it is anywhere close to half of one spouse's climaxes, something is wrong.

[David]

I re-read the relevant page of the book.
He's commenting on Song of Songs 7, where the bride says "I give you all my love", and explains that love is not primarily something we "get" from others but something that we "give to" or "share with" others.
This should then shape our view of sex as primarily something to be shared with our spouse, and by extension suggests that masturbation should be avoided if it's not a shared experience (as an example, I don't see anything wrong with a husband who suffers from erectile dysfunction holding his wife whilst she masturbates if that's how they want to share sex).
He's not specifically commenting on single people, although it is implied that this would discourage masturbation for the single.