Sex toys for singles?

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hastentheday
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Re: Sex toys for singles?

Post by hastentheday »

SeekingChange wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:23 pm But if one can have their heart right, or if we go even further and say it helps one from sinning, that's not a misuse or having something as an idol.
Even though there is no earthly way to know this either you or I or anyone else besides God, I wonder how many have their "heart in the right place" and I also wonder how we know they are not sinning. This is beyond a slippery slope no matter what "view" one takes. I'll be VERY skeptical if someone here or anywhere else besides God claims they are on the side of "truth" here.
2 Timothy 1:7 "For God has not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."
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Re: Sex toys for singles?

Post by Total Control »

 ! Message from: PaulB
Please limit this thread to the issue of sex toys for singles. Debating if masturbation is okay or sin should be done in a separate thread in this same section.
THANKS!
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Re: Sex toys for singles?

Post by benny »

I do not see anything wrong with singles using sexual toys, if you are going to masterbate does it really matter if you use your hand or a toy in your hand?

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Re: Sex toys for singles?

Post by Link+Zelda »

This is not a thread about the sinfulness or lack thereof of solo masturbation. However, I think analyzing justifications for the validity of (and also reasons to encourage) solo masturbation in light of this scenario may be helpful. When justifying solo masturbation for the unmarried, I normally see the main three points:
  1. Release of built-up pressure. This removes the mental, and even sometimes physical, pain of not orgasming over a period of time. It can improve focus, help sleep, reduce menstrual pains, etc. It can also help lower the temptation to give into unmarried partnered sexual activity, thus helping to avoid not just one's own sin, but possibly helping avoid drawing other into sex in as (I considered including this last sentence as a fourth point, but I think it can be included in this first one).
  2. Learning one's body. This is most often seen as a reason for girls/women to masturbate. The idea is that is allows someone the opportunity to understand their arousal patterns and what feels best for them. In the case of an upcoming marriage, it is said that knowing ones body will make the transition to married sex easier and more enjoyable for both parties.
  3. It needs to be done in a lust-free way. The Bible is silent on masturbation unless one purports that it is included under other umbrellas. If one believes those umbrellas don't cover it, then masturbation is thus okay as long as one doesn't lust during it. Lusting, however, is a sin (Matthew 5:27-28), so coupling masturbation with lust would clearly be sinning.
So lets look at how those relate to sex toys for singles:

(1) Release of Built-Up Pressure
I'm pretty sure that most men are going to have no problem climaxing by hand, and probably quite quickly. Thus, adding a sex toy isn't going to help with #1 at all. For women, as I understand, most get pretty good with their fingers, though possibly a toy would help make things a little less time consuming. For some women, they don't figure out how to O through masturbation. However, I do wonder how many of those that don't O with the hands actually experience "Built-Up Pressure"? My wife didn't, but perhaps she is just that low/responsive drive. Honestly, I don't remember experiencing what I would have described as that pressure prior to my first masturbation O at age 18, which was very late for a dude's first O. Once I'd orgasmed that first time, then I had a huge thirst/desire/pressure.

(2) Learning One's Body
This one may depend on the type of toy being employed as well as the sex of the person. Again, males typically have a pretty good idea of what feels good and what doesn't. Do they really need a toy to help with that? While a fleshlight likely feels different from a hand, is it going to be that useful for learning intercourse with their future wife? If they want to learn how to hold off from early orgasm, is there a serious advantage to using something other than their hand(s)? I've never used a toy on myself, so I don't actually know for sure.
For ladies, it's going to depend. I could see women that have been diagnosed as having smaller vaginas as potentially benefitting from the use of dilators to help prepare them for a penis (also true for those with vaginismus). However, are dildos really necessary in the general population? Wouldn't that sensation be better experienced with her future husband (especially given that the bulk of dildos are at the upper end of the penis-size distribution curve)? As far as vibrators, I would think there's also no need to experience that unless one had failed to learn to O with the fingers.

(3) Lust-Free Way
For the subset of people that can reliably masturbate without lusting, would that still hold with a toy? For some toys, I could see that not being a problem. But what about dildos and fleshlights? I could see those helping the imagination along to places it shouldn't be, as these are visual aids that might be a problem for some people. For instance, my wife had never seen an adult penis until mine--for some women, would having that penis visual make a difference? The same would be true for men and lifelike fleshights.

---

So the above ended up being more questions than answers ::lol . As for my own thoughts--what sticks out to me is 1 Corinthians 10:23:
“All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up.
Some people have mentioned that since both single's masturbation and sex toys are individually okay, so why not single's masturbation with sex toys? But I could point out that abstaining from sexual activity and marriage are both okay, so is abstaining from sexual activity within marriage okay? Clearly that is not, so one should be careful with combinations and extrapolations like that. That said, I think from the most letter-of-the-law perspective, that if masturbation is okay, then sex-toy-enhanced masturbation probably is as well.

I like to look at things from cost/benefit or risk/benefit perspectives. Here, I see very little potential benefit for the majority of singles in using sex toys, especially for men. However, risks include an extreme focus on the physical side of sex, a general oversexualization of the individual in an already highly sexualized culture, desensitization to "natural" sexual stimulation (think "death grip", which can also affect women), and possible hurt to your future spouse, particularly if they don't physically measure up to the dildo or fleshlight (which, honestly, the average person won't). Thus, I'd say some of the terms mentioned by others, such as "unwise" and "slippery slope" definitely apply here.

That ended up being a lot of rambling without a firm conclusion....go figure. :lol:
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Re: Sex toys for singles?

Post by NotDoneYet »

SeekingChange wrote:My husband once asked about giving our tween daughter a vibrator, because we were seeing the benefit of a girl learning her own body. I was not comfortable with that, so we didn't do that.
Although I do agree that giving a tween a sex toy is perhaps not the best idea, I can definitely see where your husband is coming from.

I suspect that we can condition our bodies and physical needs through masturbation and this could be where many problems like PE stem from (completely un-researched / unsubstantiated theory).

I think that with boys discovering masturbation and engaging in the act as they grow into young adults, but doing so with the fear of being caught, it results in them “getting it done” as quickly as possible with maximum stimulation from the get-go, resulting in their bodies being conditioned to look for the same when they eventually make love with their spouse.

I guess what I’m saying is I wish we could indeed teach our kids to love and explore their bodies and to some extent guide them on best practices, but I suspect this will be a very awkward and difficult talk to have Image

Anyway, on the OP’s question- I think it’s perfectly fine for singles to own sex toys Image
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Re: Sex toys for singles?

Post by Tanner »

I commend you for asking the query that many have pondered. Finding a safe environment and platform is not always available from a Christian perspective.

I was in my 30s before I was married and was at the point of starting to seriously explore such things. I was looking at a sleeve etc. and nothing molded after someone. Securing a website without nudity was a hinderance. My motivation was exploring a different feeling and God took care of that quickly by bringing my wife into my life at that time. So, your mate may be on the way very soon!

So loong as porn is not involved, it can assist with PE and knowing your PONR. Just do not rely soley on it alone if purchasing one as it may impact PIV once married.

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Re: Sex toys for singles?

Post by DaveW »

Irnmyk wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:58 am David made a strong statement in the second post in this thread, but unlike a lot of his posts, he didn't back this one up with scripture.

Might that be that that is because there isn't a single word about masturbation in the scriptures? Oh, yes, some have perverted other verses about "spilling seed on the ground" - a story about something entirely different to condemn it, but that doesn't make it about masturbation.
Actually I believe there are 3 references to "M" in the OT. 2 are neutral and one i believe is quite positive.

The 2 neutral ones talk about "covering his feet" which I take as a way of not getting semen on leather footwear which would be unclean for the rest of the day. The most detailed one is King Saul in a cave "covering his feet" (most modern translations say "relieving himself" where he was SO engrossed in what he was doing that he did not notice David coming in and cutting off a piece of his clothing. Toilet functions are not THAT engrossing.

But the one positive one is from Song of Solomon 5 verses 2-5:

2 “I was asleep but my heart was awake. A voice! My beloved was knocking: ‘Open to me, my sister, my darling, My dove, my perfect one! For my head is drenched with dew, My locks with the damp of the night.’ 3 “I have taken off my dress, How can I put it on again? I have washed my feet, How can I dirty them again? 4 “My beloved extended his hand through the opening, [lit: by the hole] And my feelings were aroused for him. 5 “I arose to open to my beloved; And my hands dripped with myrrh, And my fingers with liquid myrrh, On the handles of the bolt.

There are many common poetic image euphemisms in ancient near-east erotic poetry. One is "garden" for the genitals, another is lilies for female genitals specifically (due to the flower petal similarity to the labia) and specifically with this passage: Myrrh for the wetness of female arousal.

She had a dream or a half sleeping fantasy of her lover putting his hand "by the hole" that got her aroused. Perhaps she was remembering what happened in SOS 2:6 where she said "Let his left hand be under my head And his right hand embrace me." BTW - "embrace" is also translated "fondle." He was giving her manual stimulation. And if it was HER hand dripping with myrrh, what exactly WAS she doing? Masturbating. And she is called (in some translations) "undefiled." It is positive.

Perhaps we should re-think the bible being silent on this topic.
But, I also believe, that if misused - masturbation while holding images of some woman in one's mind - would produce sin as well, but the sin isn't the masturbation, it is the lust.
Perhaps we should also re-think how we define "lust."

In Matt 5 it says to look on a woman with lust is to commit adultery in your heart. The Greek word there is epithumeo - any strong desire; but it was specifically used by Greek speaking Jews (Using the Septuagint OT) for "Covet." Paul used it that way several times. And since Our Lord was going thru some of the 10 commandments, that fits right in. To covet means to want to take something as your own, wanting to steal it.

Exodus 20:7
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.


IT specifically talks of coveting a neighbor's wife or servant. Wanting to take her as your own sex partner. It is my opinion that just getting aroused from seeing a nude picture does not rise to the level of lust, IF you do not want to take her as your wife/sex slave. ( or husband/sex slave if you are female)
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Re: Sex toys for singles?

Post by ThereAndBackAgain »

DaveW wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:57 am
Exodus 20:7
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.


IT specifically talks of coveting a neighbor's wife or servant. Wanting to take her as your own sex partner. It is my opinion that getting aroused from seeing a nude picture does not rise to the level of lust, IF you do not want her as your wife/sex slave. ( or husband/sex slave if you are female)
That's the problem with fantasies and pornography (besides uncovering someone who is not your husband/wife's shame!), it tends to drift towards imaging them as a sexual slave/toy for you to play with. That's just my sad experience.
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Re: Sex toys for singles?

Post by Link+Zelda »

ThereAndBackAgain wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:04 am That's the problem with fantasies and pornography (besides uncovering someone who is not your husband/wife's shame!), it tends to drift towards imaging them as a sexual slave/toy for you to play with. That's just my sad experience.
Well said, and I believe very true for many people. While some may be able to readily masturbate without going down sinful roads, it's not for everyone.
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Re: Sex toys for singles?

Post by ThereAndBackAgain »

Link+Zelda wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:25 am
ThereAndBackAgain wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:04 am That's the problem with fantasies and pornography (besides uncovering someone who is not your husband/wife's shame!), it tends to drift towards imaging them as a sexual slave/toy for you to play with. That's just my sad experience.
Well said, and I believe very true for many people. While some may be able to readily masturbate without going down sinful roads, it's not for everyone.
It's definitely not for everyone, but it's a bit easier than people make it out to be.
I haven't been the best at it, but I'm learning how to focus on my own reactions more than/instead of anything visual. It takes time and practice, and honestly; it takes prayer.
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