I don't mind opinions, any Biblical evidence for or against with the translations given would be good. Like if it's NASB, KJV, etc.
I've got a blanket question that leads to more questions, but like I said above: I'd like verses, but opinions are helpful too:
What is okay for a single person to take part in to keep the fire, of desire leading to lust, down?
Is masturbation okay?
Are sex toys like a vibrator or fleshlight okay?
What is the consensus on fantasizing during masturbation?
What is Okay for a single person?
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ReformedLockbox
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What is Okay for a single person?
"A Christian is known not only by what he believes, but also by what he rejects and denies." - RC Sproul
Acquire wisdom! Acquire understanding!
Do not abandon her, and she will guard you;
Love her, and she will watch over you. - Proverbs 4: 5-6
Acquire wisdom! Acquire understanding!
Do not abandon her, and she will guard you;
Love her, and she will watch over you. - Proverbs 4: 5-6
Re: What is Okay for a single person?
I'm more of a lurker here than a poster, but seeing no one else has undertaken a response, here's some thoughts:
In my mind, 1 Thess 3:7 gives a good background to the issue (Sanctification is our goal as a believer & unbridled lust will prove to be an enemy)... but I especially have found v. 4 to be on my mind a lot: "that every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour." While it doesn't give specifics, this maybe provides a hint that approaching this issue requires a bit of tact and restraint, i.e. that there is variation among believers & each of us have to balance our own weaknesses and temptations in ironing out how we personally go about it.
The area specifically of masturbation seems one of those areas where scripture doesn't provide absolute "rules." Instead, it puts a lot of its emphasis on avoiding "lust" and this emphasis also seems intertwined with how we spend our thought life. eg. if we let our thoughts roam into the territory of imagined sexual encounters with other individuals (Matt. 5:28). Keeping the emphasis on your heart is important however you answer the question.
I think for the majority of people on this forum, this means that if you are able (or if you are able to learn) to masturbate purely for the feeling and for the release (without pornography or fantasy), they wouldn't see a problem with it.
Practically speaking however, for a lot of guys, masturbation is so closely associated with lust or pornography that allowing one can lead to falling in to the other. This is why I love Thess. 3:4, because we all have to put in the work to figure out how to approach pure living on an individual basis & with self-knowledge. You might find it impossible to masturbate without falling... Or you might find that it can be learnt, but you have to wade those waters yourself.
Personally, I am one of those guys who doesn't have a problem masturbating simply for the release & physical enjoyment. I wish someone had spelt out in my earlier years that scripture talks about porn and lust but leaves the door open for masturbation for release/enjoyment.
In terms of scripture proofs, the biggest would be the silence of scripture, that it doesn't address this issue (Onan is an example of willful if not malicious failure to conceive a child in a levirate marriage, not about masturbating). The closest other scriptures to talk about this would be Lev. 15:16-17 compared with v. 18-19. Again, the absence of a condemnation is deafening, and wet dreams/masturbation fall into the same category as sexual relations between a husband and wife, and a woman on her period (both of which scripture, from a New Testament lens, talks about as pure). One other scripture that maybe helps is Matt. 19:12, specifically the expression "which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake." Again, it's ambiguous how they make themselves eunuchs... the previous verse says it is a "gift," and maybe that's all there is to it, except with the Bible's condemnation of living with burning lust (1 Cor. 7:9), and the general experience of how many men struggle with this even when they have committed themselves rigorously to singleness & purity, I am inclined to think he means at least some govern their own bodies with masturbation rather than letting desire pressure cook... But again, these scriptures give hints. They don't give a universal rule.
You also asked about toys etc. and I would approach it in a similar way. Some guys (and probably girls, I don't know), might find masturbating with a toy to be a stumbling block. Others might find it a help for purity. I would mainly watch that you're not being controlled/mastered by it (like multiple times a day). Using masturbation as a tool for purity doesn't negate the need to exercise self control. Oh, and some people would have reservations with supporting fleshlight simply because of the way they push porn use & the porn industry with their toys...
Hope all that is helpful. Praying you find clarity on this issue.
In my mind, 1 Thess 3:7 gives a good background to the issue (Sanctification is our goal as a believer & unbridled lust will prove to be an enemy)... but I especially have found v. 4 to be on my mind a lot: "that every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour." While it doesn't give specifics, this maybe provides a hint that approaching this issue requires a bit of tact and restraint, i.e. that there is variation among believers & each of us have to balance our own weaknesses and temptations in ironing out how we personally go about it.
The area specifically of masturbation seems one of those areas where scripture doesn't provide absolute "rules." Instead, it puts a lot of its emphasis on avoiding "lust" and this emphasis also seems intertwined with how we spend our thought life. eg. if we let our thoughts roam into the territory of imagined sexual encounters with other individuals (Matt. 5:28). Keeping the emphasis on your heart is important however you answer the question.
I think for the majority of people on this forum, this means that if you are able (or if you are able to learn) to masturbate purely for the feeling and for the release (without pornography or fantasy), they wouldn't see a problem with it.
Practically speaking however, for a lot of guys, masturbation is so closely associated with lust or pornography that allowing one can lead to falling in to the other. This is why I love Thess. 3:4, because we all have to put in the work to figure out how to approach pure living on an individual basis & with self-knowledge. You might find it impossible to masturbate without falling... Or you might find that it can be learnt, but you have to wade those waters yourself.
Personally, I am one of those guys who doesn't have a problem masturbating simply for the release & physical enjoyment. I wish someone had spelt out in my earlier years that scripture talks about porn and lust but leaves the door open for masturbation for release/enjoyment.
In terms of scripture proofs, the biggest would be the silence of scripture, that it doesn't address this issue (Onan is an example of willful if not malicious failure to conceive a child in a levirate marriage, not about masturbating). The closest other scriptures to talk about this would be Lev. 15:16-17 compared with v. 18-19. Again, the absence of a condemnation is deafening, and wet dreams/masturbation fall into the same category as sexual relations between a husband and wife, and a woman on her period (both of which scripture, from a New Testament lens, talks about as pure). One other scripture that maybe helps is Matt. 19:12, specifically the expression "which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake." Again, it's ambiguous how they make themselves eunuchs... the previous verse says it is a "gift," and maybe that's all there is to it, except with the Bible's condemnation of living with burning lust (1 Cor. 7:9), and the general experience of how many men struggle with this even when they have committed themselves rigorously to singleness & purity, I am inclined to think he means at least some govern their own bodies with masturbation rather than letting desire pressure cook... But again, these scriptures give hints. They don't give a universal rule.
You also asked about toys etc. and I would approach it in a similar way. Some guys (and probably girls, I don't know), might find masturbating with a toy to be a stumbling block. Others might find it a help for purity. I would mainly watch that you're not being controlled/mastered by it (like multiple times a day). Using masturbation as a tool for purity doesn't negate the need to exercise self control. Oh, and some people would have reservations with supporting fleshlight simply because of the way they push porn use & the porn industry with their toys...
Hope all that is helpful. Praying you find clarity on this issue.
Re: What is Okay for a single person?
I think masturbation is okay. I didn't have a problem masturbating without porn or sexual images possibly because I didn't know anything about sex when I first discovered that manipulating my penis felt good. I was a virgin until I was 29 and MB did not at any time make me less interested in girls, or want to be married.applenut wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:05 pm Personally, I am one of those guys who doesn't have a problem masturbating simply for the release & physical enjoyment. I wish someone had spelt out in my earlier years that scripture talks about porn and lust but leaves the door open for masturbation for release/enjoyment.
I wonder what difference it would have made if I had never masturbated?