How do we make it NOT a sin (of conscience)?

How to avoid sin? Is masturbation good or bad?
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IntimateMoment
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Re: How do we make it NOT a sin (of conscience)?

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That brings up the question do those with a good sex life with their spouse still masturbate? For the most part they do. At least the men. No doubt a partner is more satisfying in some ways, it may not be as physically intense as masturbating. So having both in some mix maybe ideal. You may think Pizza is the greatest but still have a burger and fries sometimes and enjoy them.
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Re: How do we make it NOT a sin (of conscience)?

Post by Olorin »

IntimateMoment wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:28 am
Olorin wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:50 am
IntimateMoment wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 9:03 am Why do people masturbate?

Because it feels good. PERIOD , end of sentence do not make up other reasons you won't fool anyone.
Well, of course masturbation feels good. However, it is also true that partnered sex is usually in the mind of most who masturbate, even if it is with a genric 'someone' rather than a specific person. Beyond the physical release, the desire for sex includes a spiritual connection with another human being.

Studies show that women who masturbate most often are thinking of a fantasy, past sexual experience, or erotica they are watching. Once aroused they concentrate on the sensations their body is experiencing. Do I think I have had a spiritual connection with some person in a fantasy or in erotica while masturbating? No chance, I would seek psychiatric help if I watched Vanilla Sky and felt a spiritual connecion with Tom Cruise or Cameron Diaz. Now maybe Penelope Cruz. Just joking of course.
My point was that men and women were created for one another and that sex was created by God to bind the spouses together, and of course to propagate the speices. Bind means more than simply a physical connection. I think most people who have sex would attest to the fact that the bonding goes beyond merely the physical, not that I am diminishing the importance of the physcial. The point humans are not 'just matter'.

But I am still curious. Do you not believe that human beings are more than matter? If so, is it not possible that sex has a 'spiritual' component? I am not trying to badger you, I am honestly curious as to what you think about the nature of human beings. I don't think you even have to be a Christian, or religious to believe that there is something more than physical about human nature.
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Re: How do we make it NOT a sin (of conscience)?

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IntimateMoment wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 6:17 am That brings up the question do those with a good sex life with their spouse still masturbate? For the most part they do. At least the men. No doubt a partner is more satisfying in some ways, it may not be as physically intense as masturbating. So having both in some mix maybe ideal. You may think Pizza is the greatest but still have a burger and fries sometimes and enjoy them.
It is not only that masturbating might not be as physically intense as partnered sex, it is also qualitatively different. Being sexual with another person has the dimension of 'connection' that is absent from masturbation. What is connecting is our complete person, which includes more than just matter.

Masturbation in marriage happens for many reasons, including a mis-match between the sexual desires of spouses. We live in a Fallen world, so our sex life will depart from what God meant it to be. I will also add that our ability to connect in non-sexual ways has been negatively impacted by the Fall.

This point of view concerning sex and its meaning is only reasonable if one believes in the Biblical explanation of human nature, including the reality of The Fall. For those who believe that we are only matter, then our sex lives (and everything else for that matter) has no more meaning than the random motion of atoms and photons in the sun.
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Re: How do we make it NOT a sin (of conscience)?

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IntimateMoment wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 6:17 am That brings up the question do those with a good sex life with their spouse still masturbate? For the most part they do. At least the men.
...more gross over-generalization...

"many"...maybe. but "most"... where's the data?

I for one have had long periods of a "bad" sex life, yet did not masturbate during that time. I would also contend that masturbation can contribute to a bad sex life, make it worse, or it can serve to diminish a good sex life. Yet, maybe especially for females, it can serve to help one better understand themselves, their physical reactions to sexual touch and open their mind to new possibilities both mental and physical. So, I'm not preaching for or against the basic idea of masturbation. I am offering that it is more than just scratching an itch on your back and one should consider all the possible ramifications.
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Re: How do we make it NOT a sin (of conscience)?

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LBD wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 7:07 am
IntimateMoment wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 6:17 am That brings up the question do those with a good sex life with their spouse still masturbate? For the most part they do. At least the men.
...more gross over-generalization...

"many"...maybe. but "most"... where's the data?

I for one have had long periods of a "bad" sex life, yet did not masturbate during that time. I would also contend that masturbation can contribute to a bad sex life, make it worse, or it can serve to diminish a good sex life. Yet, maybe especially for females, it can serve to help one better understand themselves, their physical reactions to sexual touch and open their mind to new possibilities both mental and physical. So, I'm not preaching for or against the basic idea of masturbation. I am offering that it is more than just scratching an itch on your back and one should consider all the possible ramifications.
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Re: How do we make it NOT a sin (of conscience)?

Post by LBD »

IntimateMoment wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 7:21 am Mom always said don't eat that cookie it will spoil your dinner.
:D not bad advice, but...it's according to how hungry you are. ;)
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Re: How do we make it NOT a sin (of conscience)?

Post by DaveW »

ReformedLockbox wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 6:44 am So, I do masturbate. But whenever I try and do more, you know; take my time and enjoy myself instead of just getting the release, it feels like it's a self focused sin. Are any of ya'll able to focus and bring glory to God through your time alone? Am I not alone in feeling Masturbation is selfish if you aren't just going for the release while single?
I think part of it is the purity culture frowning on any exploration.
Of course if you are married, the spouse has authority to say yes or no on this subject per 1 Cor 7.4.

If you are single, NO ONE, not parents, not congregational leaders, etc; has any authority to say yes or no to you masturbating. I went thru 3 years of HELL during college due to congregational leaders that thought "M" was one of the ultimate sins and indicated demonic possession. It took years to get that out of my head. A lot of study and prayer.

My conclusion? Sexual pleasure is a gift from God. He designed the nerves in the penis and clitoris just for that purpose. In fact the clitoris has no other function whatsoever. That means He expects us to enjoy it. Frequently.

As far as self-focused, is not eating self-focused? Or drinking? (water of course) Or even breathing? In fact it could be argued that if there is a starving person or someone dying of thirst available, eating and drinking could be taking sustenance away from them. But who is masturbating robbing? No one.

So if you want to "bring glory to God" in your sexual alone time, try this: First pray. Thank God He gave you those urges and feelings. And when you are done, praise HIM for how good it felt and how relieved you feel now.
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Re: How do we make it NOT a sin (of conscience)?

Post by DaveW »

IntimateMoment wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 9:03 am Why do people masturbate?
Because it feels good. PERIOD , end of sentence do not make up other reasons you won't fool anyone.
I would not say that is the only reason. I have had discussions with people who HATE it but do it anyway. Some times they even vomit afterward.

They do not do it to feel good; they do it as the only way to relieve the irresistible urge for orgasm.
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Re: How do we make it NOT a sin (of conscience)?

Post by DaveW »

ReformedLockbox wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 6:09 am Considering I've always been super sensitive to random assortments of things, physical and other, I won't be surprised if that's part of the reason I guilt myself after orgasm sometimes.

I just hunger for that connection, but I'm sending out a signal that no one is responding to. :(
I find it interesting that in the one place in SoS that talks about masturbating (chapter 5 vs 2-5) it is followed by Shulamite longing for that connection, going out to look for her lover, and then getting beat up (v 7) by the guards.

IMO God intended sexual pleasure to be shared, thus making a connection. Some are very sensitive to the lack of connection that masturbation has and can feel it physically; and that emptiness in the pit of the stomach gets processed in our minds as guilt. (very similar physical feeling)
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