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Our sex lives vs Adam and Eve's

How does God fit into our sex lives?
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RedsPastor
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Re: Our sex lives vs Adam and Eve's

Post by RedsPastor »

Twue_Wuv wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:42 am
Their sex life was non-existent before the fall. They were innocent, like children, before the fall. The fall brought about knowledge of good and evil for them. That's when their sex life began. As for how their sex life was, once it started, I don't know. Did God instruct them on the basics? Or did they naturally figure it out like in the movie "The Blue Lagoon"?
State your source, from the Bible. I disagree with you, and want to know why you think they didn't. I believe the Bible says otherwise, quite clearly.

Knowledge of good and evil simply means they now had the ability to know what was good and what was evil, where before everything just...was. There was no ability to know the difference between the two, whereas God knew the distinction because he declared things "good." So...again I ask, state your source.
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. -- 1 Corinithians 15:10
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Re: Our sex lives vs Adam and Eve's

Post by sd595 »

I agree with Olorin/RedsPastor. God declared all He created (including sex) as good. The real problems for Adam and Eve (and all of us by extension) happened when sinfulness entered the picture and corrupted the nature of all good things. I am sure they had sex, but I suspect God had closed her womb like He had others in the OT. Maybe they even had sex and expressed their joy to Him and He took pleasure in what He made.

Do we know for sure? I would say no we don't. It doesn't say they had sex before the fall specifically. It doesn't say they didn't. All of these "before the fall" questions are a bit dangerous because they are assumption based on things (and theological assumptions) that come after. While the fall was certainly a changing event for human's, it was not a changing event for God. He is the same before and after, so His ways in the Word will also be consistent before and after.
Irnmyk
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Re: Our sex lives vs Adam and Eve's

Post by Irnmyk »

I'm in the camp of believing that they had some sort of sex life before the fall. God created us to be sexual creatures, beings, and, since before the fall, they didn't have to till the (cursed) earth to be able to eat and subsist, all they had to do was eat, sleep, and well..... No TV, so what else was there to do?

Notice that God created all mammals to be sexual creatures. Would we believe that the animals didn't have sex before the fall too? I don't think so. Did Adam and Eve watch them breed in their normal time and wonder 'what are those guys doing?' I doubt it. I suspect that they, like the animals, followed the hormones and urges that God gave us and got it on accordingly.

The other thing is, we don't know how long after their creation the fall was. Was it before their first even Saturday?, or did it occur after some long period of time of dwelling in the garden?

So much not to know and wonder about....
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Re: Our sex lives vs Adam and Eve's

Post by SeekingChange »

If we are taking the Bible as our authority, it was on Day 6 of creation, God blessed them, "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.  God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” (Gen 1:27-28). That shows sex is good and is blessed, and not a result of sin or the fall, which didn't come until later.

Another thing to consider, "naked" or "nakedness" is often a reference to something sexual. If you look into the law, specifically in Leviticus, you will see that.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
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Re: Our sex lives vs Adam and Eve's

Post by LBD »

The other thing is, we don't know how long after their creation the fall was. Was it before their first even Saturday?, or did it occur after some long period of time of dwelling in the garden?
That's something I have pondered on before. When we read it, our minds automatically assume there was little passage of time, but that is certainly not stated either way. I too am one to think there was some time passage. Days, weeks, months perhaps. Maybe longer. How would they know? Did the concept of time (other than day/night) even exist for eternal (at the time) beings? I kinda doubt it. I figure as soon as Adam saw that Eve was "made for him", he/they explored the fitting pieces fairly soon. :)
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance. -Thomas Sowell
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Re: Our sex lives vs Adam and Eve's

Post by RedsPastor »

To chime in, after reading all other thoughts.

Genesis 1:24-25 tells us why a man leaves momma and daddy and joins to his wife: because she is "bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh." This is the first marriage. It then tells us how marriage is recognized in God's eyes: "they shall become one flesh." When you have sex, you are joining two people together into one. 1+1 = 1. Biblical math! :lol:

I believe they had sex before the fall, whatever perfect form that looked like. I also believe that, at the fall, they realized they were naked (eyes opened, telling good from evil) and clothed themselves. Prior to that, they were naked, but didn't know nakedness to be bad or good. The fall "redefined" that. This is why many of us don't like being naked in front of our spouse, even though biblically, there's no foundation for that. We know from Gen 2:1 that they started having sex for the purpose of procreation. I believe prior to that, it had been for recreational purposes.

I DO agree with @SeekingChange that in the OT, nakedness was a form of shame and therefore viewed as a bad thing. We see this with Noah after the flood. This wasn't God's original design (which is was sin is, a break in the design), and therefore our corrupt, though redeemed, minds turn it that way.

I tend to believe that Adam and Eve had perfect intellects. They had perfect knowledge. How else could Adam's sons have learned how to craft metal and make things? It had to be passed down from Adam. He was also made with the perfect ideal for sex, as men are made in the image of man and God made sex. He also had to have been INCREDIBLY intelligent, because he named all the animals of creation. You can't do that without being smart.

Those have pointed out that we really can't know...you're right. We DO know that they weren't ashamed of being naked, they fell, then they were. If they had had sex before and after, think about the impact of THAT alone. You've been having amazing sex with "bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh", literally living naked all the time, then fall...and realize you're butt naked (pun intended). And the next time you go to have sex, it's different, because your mind is changed now. But they STILL had sex, because Cain happened.

Do we know for sure? No. But we DO know that God made sex, sex is glorious, and that, as some have said on here, orgasm can almost feel heavenly. Here's a thought for you, with no way to biblically prove it. When you have an orgasm now (male or female), it is inside a corrupted body and mind (who among us isn't distracted during sex from time to time). Imagine what the first orgasms was like for them, if they had one (which I sure hope happened) PRIOR TO THE FALL.

Wow.
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. -- 1 Corinithians 15:10
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Re: Our sex lives vs Adam and Eve's

Post by Irnmyk »

Since this can never be more than just a hypothetical thread, I'll throw this out.

I've always wondered what difference "the apple" made. (DON'T post or PM me, I know it wasn't necessarily an apple - I use the word euphemistically.)

I've already posted that I believe that they came together in sexual union immediately after being created as sexual beings. But what kind of sex was it?

Thinking about the horses I can see from the window near me right now. They are, and were created sexual beings, but their sexuality is greatly different than mine/ours. They come together in sexual union only when the time is right. It may be a hot and heavy, single minded thing during that short time span, but it happens. At all other times, however, they co-exist in the same pasturage not paying much attention to each other as long as they aren't competing for food or water. I've never seen a bull just staring at some cow's udders.....

I've often wondered if (and this falls into the category of "everyone is entitled to their own stupid opinion", so react accordingly) partaking of the forbidden fruit opened their eyes to the recreational aspect of sexuality - that it was something more for humans than it is for horses, cows, deer, rabbits, etc., etc., and that is why they then recognized their nakedness - something that hadn't there to fore been a problem to them.

Put differently, if that is what happened, theoretically, should a bunch of cattle have blundered onto the "forbidden fruit tree" and eaten its fruit, might we see them out in the pasture doing 69, OS, cow on top, BJ's, HJ's (paw jobs, of course), staring at udders, etc.?

Just saying, just wondering.

(And, for those of you who might be thinking, "now this guy is really weird", take a number and get in line - the line is long....)
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Re: Our sex lives vs Adam and Eve's

Post by David »

I think we have to be careful about precisely what the Bible does and doesn't say, and not speculate about those things we aren't told.

On the issue of sex before the fall, the first explicit reference to the act of sex happening seems to be in Genesis 4:1 (Adam knew his wife and she conceived), however Genesis 2:24 says " a man shall leave his mother and father and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh", and Genesis 1:28 is the command to be fruitful and multiply. Given that these are both basically commands to have sex, it seems likely that Adam and Eve had sex before the fall.
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Re: Our sex lives vs Adam and Eve's

Post by Twue_Wuv »

Olorin wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:54 am
Twue_Wuv wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:42 am
RedsPastor wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:36 pm i had this thought while I was at physical therapy today.

i wonder what adam and eve's sex life was like? I know that there are times in my marriage when our sexual intimacy gets knocked out of the ball park...i wonder what there's was like, prior to the fall? To know the ultimate definition of "naked and no shame." wow.
Their sex life was non-existent before the fall. They were innocent, like children, before the fall. The fall brought about knowledge of good and evil for them. That's when their sex life began. As for how their sex life was, once it started, I don't know. Did God instruct them on the basics? Or did they naturally figure it out like in the movie "The Blue Lagoon"?
I am not saying that they definitely had sex before the Fall, but they were given the command to 'be fruitful and multiply' before they Fall. Do we know for sure that they did not have sex prior to the Fall? Maybe that is assumed because they did not have their children until after the Fall?

I would think they did not require sex instruction, primarily because God commanded that they be fruitful and multiply. Hence, knowledge of sex was likely built into the nature that was given to them by God.

Further, I don't think sexual desire in and of itself means they lacked 'innocence'. The Fall 'marred' their ability to properly order their sexual desire, in much the same way that the Fall marred everything else.
Excellent points, Olorin!
Death cannot stop true love. All it can do is delay it for a while.
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Re: Our sex lives vs Adam and Eve's

Post by Twue_Wuv »

RedsPastor wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:13 am
Twue_Wuv wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:42 am
Their sex life was non-existent before the fall. They were innocent, like children, before the fall. The fall brought about knowledge of good and evil for them. That's when their sex life began. As for how their sex life was, once it started, I don't know. Did God instruct them on the basics? Or did they naturally figure it out like in the movie "The Blue Lagoon"?
State your source, from the Bible. I disagree with you, and want to know why you think they didn't. I believe the Bible says otherwise, quite clearly.

Knowledge of good and evil simply means they now had the ability to know what was good and what was evil, where before everything just...was. There was no ability to know the difference between the two, whereas God knew the distinction because he declared things "good." So...again I ask, state your source.
My source is my opinion. The Bible doesn't say whether or not they had sex in the Garden of Eden. It's all speculation. What I stated is my opinion.
Death cannot stop true love. All it can do is delay it for a while.
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