The Sexually Obedient Wife

How does God fit into our sex lives?
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LovingHimAlways
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Re: The Sexually Obedient Wife

Post by LovingHimAlways »

benny wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:20 am
SeekingChange wrote:I am surprised, yet not, at how off the rails this thread became after the very simple OP.

Here's the reality, this is a highly desirable thing in our culture, even if it's not the majority who desire it, otherwise there would be no D/s. And the trail around abuse likely kept others from thinking through it or sharing from a more simple, answering the question as it is asked....and likely really skewed seeing what's really represented on TMB. And now it's too long, most will ignore it and skip it.

As it seems like I (and my husband) may be the only one(s) who has actually experienced this or lived it on these boards, in a God-honoring way, I can say there was zero abuse. It wasn't a disrespectful or dishonoring thing. There was actually a lot of freedom in it, and it was a thing of beauty. It became more about trying to out love and please the other. A wife has no need to lose her voice in submission.... better yet, as I was, she can be the one who takes control and makes the choice, there's power and strength in voluntarily placing oneself under another (submission by definition).... one has no need to be a "victim" in it, which I see many want to assign a victimhood (of abuse) to any woman who submits. A spirit of submission (which I believe all believing women should have in obedience to the Lord) does not equate silence or not standing up for right and good things.
I think this is the right example of sexually obedient spouses, yes spouses. Trying to out love the other is a wonderful and successful concept. I don't see where in scriptures I am given the right to demand sexual obedience but rather I am commanded to apply that attitude of submission to me for my attitude towards my wife. Likewise my wife has to have the same mindset of applying a submissive heart for it to work on both sides. I can't make her submissive and expect positive results.

On that subject I feel my DW is very sexually submissive. Although she has low sex drive, she makes herself available for me more often than I deserve.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
I think this is a wonderful description of what submission should look like in a marriage.
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SongOfAngels
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Re: The Sexually Obedient Wife

Post by SongOfAngels »

quoting SC "As it seems like I (and my husband) may be the only one(s) who has actually experienced this or lived it on these boards, in a God-honoring way"

I don't see that at all. I think this thread did derail but those who HAVE experienced abuse had the right to weigh in and say how it affected them although i think we should keep it reigned in. I have experienced severe abuse but didn't bring it into the conversation AND i have practiced sexual submission (i prefer that over obedience as God commands submission) most definitely and i think a lot of wives on this forum have as probably most of us are lower drive than our husbands and i'm sure most of them endeavor to be a wife that God desires. It's just it can be a major struggle and i don't think we should dismiss them just because it is and is a struggle to swallow the word "sexually obedient" in one sentence. Doesn't mean we don't desire to be. But i don't think you are the only one.....
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Oldbear
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Re: The Sexually Obedient Wife

Post by Oldbear »

A sexually obedient wife, as a sexually obedient husband, most be a sole and soul mate. Sole in unrequited love and sexual unity. Soul as in best friends that find joy and intimacy in relationship.

Obedience is not a response to command and control. That’s contrary to the Biblical admonition for men to love their wives and wives to respect their husbands.

In our marriage, neither of us have demanded sex (command and control). Often, we engage in sex because we love and respect each other even though one or the other of us may not be inclined to sexual intimacy in the moment.
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SongOfAngels
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Re: The Sexually Obedient Wife

Post by SongOfAngels »

Oldbear wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:13 pm A sexually obedient wife, as a sexually obedient husband, most be a sole and soul mate. Sole in unrequited love and sexual unity. Soul as in best friends that find joy and intimacy in relationship.

Obedience is not a response to command and control. That’s contrary to the Biblical admonition for men to love their wives and wives to respect their husbands.

In our marriage, neither of us have demanded sex (command and control). Often, we engage in sex because we love and respect each other even though one or the other of us may not be inclined to sexual intimacy in the moment.
This is probably why the knee-jerk reaction to this thread. It's not that anyone on here would dispute obedience to God by wives submission to their husbands but since sex can be such an emotional and touchy subject, the title to me (and others) was inflammatory.

Submission IS NOT EASY. This is why God told us to do it without fear, as it absolutely can be fearful. Just because it is Scripture doesn't mean one doesn't wrestle with it in our humanity. There are many scriptures i wrestle with such as animal sacrifice, mass killings, etc. Just because i wrestle with this (and i do wrestle with the concept of obedience) doesn't mean i'm not a faithful believer endeavoring with all of my heart to follow the Word.
But to pretend that submission of wives is easily swallowed by all is hiding our head in the sand. Also to tack on the word "obedience" instead of submission especially when it pertains to sex is also fanning the flames. It does NOT mean that wives do not believe or try to follow that command. Ultimately all Christians are called to obedience.
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Re: The Sexually Obedient Wife

Post by MrMarried »

SLS wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:36 pm
MrMarried wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:49 amThat could have been the situation. David shouldn't have looked at her and called her to the palace to meet him, but it is possible a receptive attitude is what pushed him over the edge. We just do not know. An Israelite woman in the city was expected to scream, presumably, since that is mentioned in one of the passages.
So in other words Bathsheba was at fault and nothing but a temptress who seduced a good man?
If you want to make up a story, don't attribute it to me. I said we don't know what happened, but my description did not fit your line there, either. I don't appreciate people making up ideas and attributing them to me, especially not on the topics you are trying to make this thread about with your de-rails.

II Samuel 11 says,
4 Then David sent messengers, and took her; and she came to him, and he lay with her, for she was cleansed from her impurity; and she returned to her house. 5 And the woman conceived; so she sent and told David, and said, “I am with child.”

(NKJV)

There is no mention of rape or his forcing her. But, if you'd read rape into this passage, why wouldn't you read ideas into my post that aren't there?
This is the same kind of thing as asking a woman who was raped, "Well, what were you wearing?" Maybe you can understand why people push back when the words "sexually obedient wife" are uttered by a person blaming a woman for the sins of her attacker.
When did I blame a woman for the sins of her attacker? If you want to argue with a strawman, why don't you leave my name out of it?
Also where in the Bible are you getting this from? As mwpastor pointed out nothing in the story indicates any culpability on behalf of Bathsheba. You are adding your own views, which clearly include a very negative view of women.
There is no mention of rape. She was married. David had sex with her. She conceived.
I suspect Christians in the 1800's did not consider slaveowners who had sex with their slaves to be 'good Christians' either. There are religious people who go to church, then fornicate, have affairs, engage in same-sex sexual behavior, maybe even rape, in secret, etc. That doesn't mean the churches they go to endorse those behaviors.
Trigger Warning for linked story

So why, for example, did the majority of churches in Alabama in 1944 not condemn the rapists of Recy Taylor? Why didn't the supposed Bible Belt do anything to bring justice for her? Its because they were consumed by hate rather than the gospel of Jesus Christ. [/quote]

We were talking about whether Christians considered slaveowners having sex with slaves in the 1800's to be appropriate behavior for good Christians. The logical connection between that and your question is a bit lacking. I would imagine most Alabama Christians in 1944 were a bit like me in that they hadn't heard of the rape of Recy Taylor. I'm not a rape history specialist. I suspect most churches in Alabama in the 1940's did not release specific statements demanding justice for the rape of white women either, though if you asked their preachers or clergymen if they were opposed to rape they would have said yes.

I did look her story up and it sounds both heartbreaking, and I can also see why it would make people quite angry as well.
Personally, I would rather live in an era where that kind of "cultural Christianity" is dead.
I do not want to see a shallow kind of Christianity, but it is sad to see how at odds some of the contemporary dominant moral ideas are with the teachings of Christ and the apostles.
Many posters grew up watching TV programs, hearing ideology in the educational system and from political figures and social commentators that paint the idea of wives submitting to husbands in a negative light. The 'submission = abuse' line of reasoning shows up, even though, logically, that makes no sense and is contrary to scripture.
Or maybe we have actually listened to the stories of women and men who have suffered abuse. Maybe we have heard the real life stories of how "wives submit" was misused by pastors to browbeat women into staying with abusive husbands. Just google John MacArthur and you'll see a modern day example of how Bible passages were misused to try to guilt a woman into returning to her abusive husband.
I would ask you not to use my thread as this hobby horse of yours. A proper understanding of scripture is that wives are to submit to husbands. There may be some husbands who reference wives submitting to husbands before beating their wives, but there might also have been some parents who say 'Honor thy father and thy mother' before beating a child to death. That does not mean it is wrong for children to honor parents. And if we were on some other forum besides TMB, and I posted on the need for children to honor parents, and you tried to hi-jack the thread and make it about child abuse, implying a connection between the Biblical teaching and child abuse, I would not appreciate that either.
There are plenty of women who get bored in marriage. It's not just the men. There is little to no social stigma associated with just abandoning one's spouse just for not getting along. If the Bible teaches women to submit to their husbands and respect/reverence/fear them, then might not some of the 'not getting along' stem from wives not doing this in our culture? And children raised in broken homes are the victims.
In other words all problems of society can be traced back to those pesky women. If only women were just barefoot and pregnant and under the absolute authority of men everything would be perfect. A cursory reading of history shows that viewpoint is false.
Again, that is not what I said. Read the actual paragraph you are responding to. Again I don't appreciate your attributing ideas to me that are not mine. Are you trying to be a troll, or is this just the way you are all the time?
I suggest you get out of the manosphere or whatever poisoned source you are getting this claptrap from and actually read the Bible, as well as some history books.
Quit attributing ideas __you__ read on the manosphere or 'Jezebel' or wherever to me.
There is no reason to think that focusing on the topic of wives submitting to their husband is a bad thing unless one has a problem with the Biblical teaching on wives submitting to their husbands
The problem is you focused on such a topic without clarifying what you meant by submission. Does submission mean putting the other's needs above your own? Does it mean complete surrender to any behavior by the husband including abuse? Something else?
I kind of left that open in the OP for discussion of the narrow topic I mentioned. But I have commented on it throughout the thread. You can go back and read my posts. I am hesitant to respond to you since you do not seem to have enough respect for me as a fellow poster...and for truth...and reality.. to deal honestly with what I post.
I gave you a hypothetical example involving abusive behavior by a husband in order to get you to clarify your meaning. You then replied in a manner that indicated your definition of submission allowed no recourse for a husband's abusive behavior. A wife must just sit there, smile, and ask nicely for abusive behavior to stop. That is horrid and unbiblical.
Maybe in your imagination. I may not have posted whatever response you imagined I should. I've not responded to some of your questions so as not to further derail the post, and also because your posts have been quite ridiculous at places. Your arguing against a strawman. Submission does not equal abuse for me.
I pointed out the two ideas seem intertwined in your mind. That does not seem reasonable to me. They are not in mind. That is not justification for abuse. You do not seem to put much value on the idea of actually trying to understand the ideas I am conveying. You seem intent on reading some strawman ideas into my posts and using them as a spring board to talk about your own talking points.
You can't have it both ways. You can't say "this thread isn't about abuse" and then endorse a definition of submission that promotes abuse.
You can't have it both ways. You can't have the thread be about what is actually posted in it and also have it be about whatever ideas you wildly read into it.
happywife90
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Re: The Sexually Obedient Wife

Post by happywife90 »

That term is repulsive to me.

I am on the other extreme. So right now being sexually obedient means we don't have it because he doesn't want to.
Plumpurple
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Re: The Sexually Obedient Wife

Post by Plumpurple »

happywife90 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:53 pm That term is repulsive to me.

I am on the other extreme. So right now being sexually obedient means we don't have it because he doesn't want to.
Similar situation here - I'm the higher drive wife.
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