Thought on this quote

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RedsPastor
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Thought on this quote

Post by RedsPastor »

I'm going through the sermon on the mount on Wed nights, and tonight's topic is adultery. Thoughts on this quote from Arthur Pink.

“If lustful looking is so grievous a sin, then those who dress and expose themselves with the desire to be looked at and lusted after…are not less but perhaps more guilty. In this matter it is not only too often the case that men sin but women tempt them to do so. How great then must be the guilt of the great majority of modern misses who deliberately seek to arouse the sexual passions of young men. And how much greater still is the guilt of most of their mother’s for allowing them to become lascivious temptresses.”
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. -- 1 Corinithians 15:10
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Re: Thought on this quote

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That quote makes me cringe a little...or a lot.... the right spirit doesn't come through at all..... all I hear is heaps of condemnation...seems anti-gospel to me.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
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Re: Thought on this quote

Post by Mr. Wonderful? »

RedsPastor wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:28 pm I'm going through the sermon on the mount on Wed nights, and tonight's topic is adultery. Thoughts on this quote from Arthur Pink.

“If lustful looking is so grievous a sin, then those who dress and expose themselves with the desire to be looked at and lusted after…are not less but perhaps more guilty. In this matter it is not only too often the case that men sin but women tempt them to do so. How great then must be the guilt of the great majority of modern misses who deliberately seek to arouse the sexual passions of young men. And how much greater still is the guilt of most of their mother’s for allowing them to become lascivious temptresses.”
I would agree with the quote for the most part. Not sure I would say they are "more guilty". Sin is sin, so a women sinning does not make her more guilty than a man who sins in response. Far to often I see arguments over this issue swing too far to one extreme or the other. Biblically, each individual is responsible for his/her actions. Thus, men are responsible for how they respond to someone who is inappropriately dressed, but women are also guilty if they dress in such a way as to intentionally tempt someone to sin. The Bible is full of instructions to walk/act in a manner worthy of the Lord as well as warnings against causing/encouraging someone else to stumble in their walk with the Lord.

Now, if a women dresses modestly/tastefully (I'm not talking denim jumpers, Amish dresses, etc) and a man lusts, then that is 100% on him and his choice not to control his thoughts.
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Re: Thought on this quote

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It makes me cringe for the simple reason that in the past, so much responsibility and guilt has been put on females for the way they dress and given free passes to men in the church for their own thoughts and lustful behavior. Proof to point to me is the fact that in your quote, the author goes after mother's and daughters without even saying anything about boys/men and their fathers' responsibility to address their issues of respect and of lust. Personally, I'd say there's been a bigger problem with lustful men (porn addiction to me is proof of that) and their inappropriate and objectification of women than there is of women purposefully dressing "provocatively to get attention" and that seems wrong to me.
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Re: Thought on this quote

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The fact that I find the latter part so off-putting and wrong, actually makes me turn around and question this..."If lustful looking is so grievous a sin".... is "lustful looking" really such a "grievous sin" this person is making it out to be?
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
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Re: Thought on this quote

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I think it's written from a VERY male perspective in that most women - especially those within the church who are going to be hearing the message or reading the material this original quote is in - are NOT trying to dress provocatively or with the *intent* of being lusted after; it probably just feels that way to men who feel they have no relent from the sexual temptations they're facing, try as they might. In reality, most women are trying to dress tastefully in ways that flatter their body. They are trying to dress ways their husband finds attractive. They are dressing ways to make them feel beautiful. I mostly wear dresses that flatter my figure, but are not tight-fitting or revealing my bust. But the feeling i get reading this quote is that in trying to appear attractive for whatever reason, the Lord will see my behavior and categorize me as seductress.

I am not saying this behavior and intent on women's side of it doesn't exist, but the women this message is aimed at are not going to be there to hear it, and the women who need to hear this message won't listen to it when delivered in this tone or from this perspective. And as far as these women's mother's - the women at fault have probably scorned their advice as well and the mothers did deliver the guidance, or the mothers are also those who set the example and won't listen to it from this perspective either.
Last edited by Plumpurple on Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Thought on this quote

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SeekingChange wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:12 pm The fact that I find the latter part so off-putting and wrong, actually makes me turn around and question this..."If lustful looking is so grievous a sin".... is "lustful looking" really such a "grievous sin" this person is making it out to be?
Yes, is there really "lustful looking" or is the real sin what is happening in the heart and mind?
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Re: Thought on this quote

Post by Mr. Wonderful? »

SeekingChange wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:12 pm The fact that I find the latter part so off-putting and wrong, actually makes me turn around and question this..."If lustful looking is so grievous a sin".... is "lustful looking" really such a "grievous sin" this person is making it out to be?
Matthew 5:27-28 - “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I take the lust here to be more than an acknowledgement of the woman's body/beauty, but more of a covetousness or lewd imagining of actions he desires with someone who is not his wife.

Wouldn't this be sin, and isn't all sin grievous?
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Re: Thought on this quote

Post by Plumpurple »

As for women needing to be modest, which i think is the main perspective here trying to be expressed, an attitude of promiscuity or flirtation without respectful limits is much more powerful i think. In a discussion on modesty on some other thread, someone commented something along the lines of "we taught our children about modesty in our behavior and not calling undue attention to ourselves" that i thought was a better take. For instance, not wearing a "clubbing" outfit to a wedding or to church (though those in general are more of the promiscuous variety).

But i can say that I've never feared for my husband at the cause of a woman dressing immodestly or going to the beach together and the women in hardly any clothes. What's been an issue is flirty women/men who don't respect others relationships and cross boundaries physically and verbally that they shouldn't.
Last edited by Plumpurple on Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thought on this quote

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Mr. Wonderful? wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:25 pm Wouldn't this be sin, and isn't all sin grievous?
Are you saying the judgment this man has cast on girls and their mothers' hearts and intents are good and right? Because in this quote, we can't have one without the other. And this man is even saying that one sin (the girls/mothers) is MORE grievous than another (the man's.)

Yes, sin is grievous, but grace is all the more abounding. Let's not forget the grace with which we are saved....and casting condemnation from the pulpit, or wherever this quoted man is spreading his message, is harmful....and it's not doing Jesus or the Kingdom any favors.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
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