Perichoresis in Marriage Bed

How does God fit into our sex lives?
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IntimateMoment
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Re: Perichoresis in Marriage Bed

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Olorin wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 5:40 am
IntimateMoment wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 4:46 am
Olorin wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 4:33 am
IntimateMoment wrote: Sat May 13, 2023 10:34 am I can't find "perichoresis" in the Bible.I do not think of God when having sex, I thnk it would be sacreligious if I did. Nor do I think he is watching us have sex to see if we are doing it in a way he approves. Almost all of the church's directives about sex were put in by anti sex monks way after Jesus and his disciples died.
The Church's teachings on sex/marriage existed well before the monks you speak of. In Matthew 19, Jesus reiterated what Genesis had to say about marriage and sex; that it is a permanent one-flesh (that's the sex part) commitement between one woman and one man that should not be divided.

Paul, a contemporary of the Disciples, had lots to say about sex and marriage, including that it was a sin to fornicate.

The Didache, a document of Christian teaching written around 100 AD, condemns abortion, adultery, pedarasty, and other forms of sexual immorality.

Some monks did over-spiritualize sex. However, the church's basic teachings on sex and marriage emerged early in its history and can be found all through Bible and pre-dates the existence of monks.
Then it is good for you to believe what you do. I do not comment to change anyones beliefs. But it is sad how unaccepting so many people are of other's beliefs.
Let me start by saying that when I debate or have a discussion with someone, it is not a matter of rejecting or accepting the person. It is a matter of judging the truth or falsity of the ideas being debated.

When it comes to some 'beliefs' it is not good to simply 'be accepting'. If you came up to me and said you did not believe in gravity and you were about to jump off a building, I would try to convince you not to do that.

In general terms, Christianity proposes a view of reality that among other things says we were created by God who loves us so much that he became human to die for our sins. (I am obivously over simplifying a bit). The consequences for us are very good if we believe this truth, and not so good if we don't. I believe the Christian world view is true (just like I believe that gravity exists) and will do my best to convince anyone that their life is immeasureably better both NOW and after we die if we accept Christ as our Lord. No other decision is more important than this!
Difficult to debate when the people can not agree on the facts. Or if they can not agree on the definition of words. I respect your opinions and the beliefs you decided on. Hopefully we can still find enough common ground to help people have good marriages.
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Re: Perichoresis in Marriage Bed

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IntimateMoment wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 6:29 am
Difficult to debate when the people can not agree on the facts. Or if they can not agree on the definition of words. I respect your opinions and the beliefs you decided on. Hopefully we can still find enough common ground to help people have good marriages.
Let me start by saying I respect you and emphasize that when I respond to something that you or anyone else writes it is only to add light and not heat to the discussion.

I agree that a discussion cannot proceed if there is disagreement concerning the facts and confusion concerning the terms used in the debate. Feel free to provide specific corrections of any of my statements or ask me to clarify if something I said is not clear.

As far as helping people have good marriages, I would guess most people who read this forum believe marriage was instituted by God, and the 'common ground' for this subject (as for many others) is what is revealed in the Bible.
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Re: Perichoresis in Marriage Bed

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Olorin wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 4:40 am
IntimateMoment wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 6:29 am
Difficult to debate when the people can not agree on the facts. Or if they can not agree on the definition of words. I respect your opinions and the beliefs you decided on. Hopefully we can still find enough common ground to help people have good marriages.
Let me start by saying I respect you and emphasize that when I respond to something that you or anyone else writes it is only to add light and not heat to the discussion.

I agree that a discussion cannot proceed if there is disagreement concerning the facts and confusion concerning the terms used in the debate. Feel free to provide specific corrections of any of my statements or ask me to clarify if something I said is not clear.

As far as helping people have good marriages, I would guess most people who read this forum believe marriage was instituted by God, and the 'common ground' for this subject (as for many others) is what is revealed in the Bible.
I would hope we are trying to help marriages to be happier and have better sex among more than the readers of MB.
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Re: Perichoresis in Marriage Bed

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IntimateMoment wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 4:52 am
I would hope we are trying to help marriages to be happier and have better sex among more than the readers of MB.
For a long time my wife and I participated in a marriage-preparation ministry at our church.

Nowadays, I don't usually discuss marriage and sex topics with people (other than my wife and children). Not that I would be opposed to talking about marriage to friends and extended family, the opportunity usually does not present itself.
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Re: Perichoresis in Marriage Bed

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IntimateMoment wrote: Sat May 13, 2023 10:34 am I can't find "perichoresis" in the Bible.
It isn't. It is one of those theological greek terms they came up with to try to settle things in their own western logic (non biblical logic) minds.
I do not think of God when having sex, I thnk it would be sacreligious if I did.
Interesting. The rabbi sages of the talmudic era thought similarly. For almost every incident of life they came up with a bracha (spoken blessing), even seeing someone who just looks strange. But not for having sex.
Nor do I think he is watching us have sex to see if we are doing it in a way he approves.

Way He approves - agree. Not watching us - disagree. Song of Solomon 5.1b seems to indicate HE was watching and encourages "lovers to drink deeply" and be fulfilled in making love.
Almost all of the church's directives about sex were put in by anti sex monks way after Jesus and his disciples died.
Very true. And they IMO were very destructive. They took the ideas of Greek paganism (stoics and gnostics) and combined it with the idol worship of virginity and tried to insert that into biblical worship of God.
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Re: Perichoresis in Marriage Bed

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DaveW wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:39 am
IntimateMoment wrote: Sat May 13, 2023 10:34 am I can't find "perichoresis" in the Bible.
It isn't. It is one of those theological greek terms they came up with to try to settle things in their own western logic (non biblical logic) minds.
I do not think of God when having sex, I thnk it would be sacreligious if I did.
Interesting. The rabbi sages of the talmudic era thought similarly. For almost every incident of life they came up with a bracha (spoken blessing), even seeing someone who just looks strange. But not for having sex.
Nor do I think he is watching us have sex to see if we are doing it in a way he approves.

Way He approves - agree. Not watching us - disagree. Song of Solomon 5.1b seems to indicate HE was watching and encourages "lovers to drink deeply" and be fulfilled in making love.
Almost all of the church's directives about sex were put in by anti sex monks way after Jesus and his disciples died.
Very true. And they IMO were very destructive. They took the ideas of Greek paganism (stoics and gnostics) and combined it with the idol worship of virginity and tried to insert that into biblical worship of God.
We better be careful, we are agreeing too much.
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Re: Perichoresis in Marriage Bed

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IntimateMoment wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:45 am We better be careful, we are agreeing too much.
LOL!!! Indeed!
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Re: Perichoresis in Marriage Bed

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“I do not think of God when having sex, I thnk it would be sacreligious if I did.”
I find that statement odd. When God made us he created us naked, he sees us naked, he is omnipresent. When he created us he gave us our genitalia, he gave us our sex drive, and he did this not just for procreation, but for our pleasure as well. Enjoying it to the fullest is just a way of showing our application for that gift. I can easily picture him perched on the dresser urging us on and giving us in our minds things to do and ways to enjoy his gift. Thanking him for it is a form of worshipping him.
I acknowledge that sex has religious aspects to it but I feel it is also a gift of pleasure given to his created children because he loves us.
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Re: Perichoresis in Marriage Bed

Post by DaveW »

vazny wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 3:44 pm The Bible says very little about the meaning of marital sex. Or am I missing something?
Man and woman are one flesh: Mark 10:6-9. But what else?
I am actually surprised no one here elaborated on this question.

The entire chapter of Ephesians 5 talks about earthly marriage and its stipulations, at the end of which the apostle says this:

Ephesians 5:32
This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.


All thru the chapter he draws parallels between 'husband and wife' with 'Messiah and the Church. ' IOW, a proper marriage relationship is to be a picture to the world of God and us.
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Re: Perichoresis in Marriage Bed

Post by Paradox »

Olorin wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 4:33 am
The Church's teachings on sex/marriage existed well before the monks you speak of. In Matthew 19, Jesus reiterated what Genesis had to say about marriage and sex; that it is a permanent one-flesh (that's the sex part) commitement between one woman and one man that should not be divided.

Paul, a contemporary of the Disciples, had lots to say about sex and marriage, including that it was a sin to fornicate.

The Didache, a document of Christian teaching written around 100 AD, condemns abortion, adultery, pedarasty, and other forms of sexual immorality.

Some monks did over-spiritualize sex. However, the church's basic teachings on sex and marriage emerged early in its history and can be found all through Bible and pre-dates the existence of monks.
Thank you for sharing this, Olorin. I agree with you.
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